Citymakers Collective: Empowering the Next Generation of Architects, Developers and Builders

Austin Tunnell

What is important to you when you're designing a city and then how do we get there? That's what's missing from the university discussion right now. Really it's trying to educate more quote unquote city makers so that we can really increase the bar of knowledge and skills and vision. Start changing the profession, start changing the conversation about the way that we're building everything.

Austin Tunnell

Welcome to the Building Culture podcast, where we explore holistic solutions to crafting a more beautiful, resilient and thriving world through the built environment. I'm your host, Austin Tennell. I interview leading change makers, architects, developers, builders, engineers, entrepreneurs, inventors and more. I also share my own journey as the founder of Building Culture as we grow a holistic real estate development company from the ground up. Together, we can explore a new vision for city building in the 21st century. one that puts people at the center. If you enjoyed this podcast or find value in what we're doing, please leave a five star review, share it with your friends and drop us a note. Thanks for listening. I want to take a moment to thank the sponsors of our podcast, Sierra Pacific Windows. They are a national window and door manufacturer, some really high quality windows and doors. We use them regularly in our building culture projects. So if you've got a renovation or new construction, I highly recommend you talk to your local distributor and check them out. Also, OneSource windows and doors. It doesn't just matter the manufacturer, it matters who you're buying your windows from. And if you're in the state of Oklahoma, OneSource windows and doors, they've got a showroom in Oklahoma City and in Tulsa, and they service the entire state. We work with them regularly to purchase our Sierra Pacific windows. So if you're in the state of Oklahoma, check them out. Sierra Pacific windows and one source of windows and doors. If you're in the state of Oklahoma, Will Matthew, welcome on the podcast. They are sending. are you doing? Good. I'm excited to have you guys here today to talk about city makers collective, a really interesting and cool summer program that you guys are putting together. And we've talked about a number of times and wanted to have you guys on the podcast so you could talk about what the program is, who it's for, and why you are doing it. So to start off with, Will, could you give us the high level details of the program that you guys are putting together? Absolutely. So we are putting together a two week summer studio to be located in Charleston, South Carolina this summer. And we want to teach aspiring city makers

Austin Tunnell

some of the principles of resilient, beautiful, and prosperous places. Because we look around at the education, and there's really a lack of teaching of these principles, of understanding how all the pieces of a place come together to make it something that we, a place that we all want to live and be in. So this is a summer studio that's starting to fill that gap in education. and we would, we would, it's open to anybody interested in the topic, but, we really are targeting people with some design background. So this is architects, landscape architects, planners, development, background, and really in, terms of, getting hyper specific, you know, students and young professionals is what we're going after. But this two week program in Charleston and, trying to to start to make a difference in the cities that we build here in the US? Yeah, that's awesome. think it's going to be a really, I'm excited to see the program happen. I think it's for the first year, you know, this will be the first year. And just get a couple other specific details so people know what are the dates of it. Yeah, we will be doing the program from July 6th through the 21st in 2025 this summer. Cool. Can you break down a little bit of the actual program? mean, what's really cool is you just got you guys have a great network of people. So you have a lot of amazing, really top notch instructors and practitioners involved that I'm really impressed by. I think it's going to offer a lot of value to people. Yeah, I would I would add, Austin, that you, especially being an advisor, has been really important to hear from and learn from. We've got Lou Oliver. Anne Sussman, Rhea Sanchez from a studio in Guatemala, Ruben Hansen out of Europe. We've been learning and kind of working hand in hand with world-class leaders. And we believe that that generation has so much to pass on to the next. And if we don't capture those learnings, those insights, and really equip the next generation, then there's kind of like a

Austin Tunnell

a lost opportunity, know, so much has been pushed forward by the new urbanist movement, by ink dev. So many people have, you know, make great strides in building better cities. But if we don't help that next generation kind of carry the torch, we're going to have a huge gap. And of course folks can go to a four year school, but that's also kind of restrictive for a lot of people. Some people can't afford that, or maybe they're in a different career stage. So we're really trying to fill that education gap. Happy to get into more of those details of the why behind it. yeah, we've learned from some of the best. you've got a lot of, you rattled off a few people and what I love about is these are real practitioners out there doing things. So for people who don't know listening, know, Lou Oliver is one of the top new urbanists in the country doing walkable communities that people would recognize. You mentioned Studio Urbano. What did they do? Kaila and Guatemala, you know, so if you don't know what that is check out Kaila and Guatemala. It's extraordinarily impressive new walkable City that really is extraordinary. And did I am I making this up that Sarah Beak is doing something with you guys? we she is Agreed to lead our studio for the summer school That's right. Okay. And so Sarah Biga, who was at Las Catalinas for 10 years, and she was on the podcast a few episodes ago for anyone who wants to listen. So we're talking about some amazing, not, you know, just professors or something. We're talking about people out there in the real world, creating new communities at, even at scale, at small scales and at large scales. So you're interacting with some really incredible, incredible people. And then also you're going to Charleston. Sorry, Allison, to add to that, think something that we've been really intentional about is bringing together different parts of the field as well. So these are all people that are out there doing the work, but not everybody's an architect. You have architects on our advisory board and in the program, but we also have people that do development actively. We have people that are more involved in the government side on zoning and regulation updates.

Austin Tunnell

We have philosophers, we have people who work up with nonprofit education. There's a lot of experience on both our board, on our advisory board, and in the team that we're building to actually teach this summer. we're thrilled with the people that are excited about this and working with us. Awesome. Well, let's break down a little bit more the inspiration and the reason for for this program at all. There's a lot of programs out there, a lot of summer programs. Like, why? Why are you doing it?

Austin Tunnell

Really, this started for me when I look back on my, you know, I'm about 32. So I've had 10 years since I graduated college and I look back over those 10 years and I think, what could I have done over that 10 years if I had started from a place of understanding what I understand now? That's where this started from. Because I think The reality is, hate to say this to all of the urbanists out there, the principles of understanding good places is pretty simple. There aren't that many pieces to put together. Now, in everything with design, it's in the details in the end, and that's where you need those years of experience. the principles, they're pretty easy to understand. I mean, we can teach them in a two-week time period. when I look back, That's what I was missing. took me piecing this together for myself, both through working. I worked under Lou Oliver. Coming on 10 years now, I've been working with him. So I've pieced that together just from working with him and with getting involved in the CNU community. But I just look back and imagine what I could have done and where I could be now if I had started from a place of understanding these principles. So that's really the why of where we are now. Why don't we do that? So that's the problem we're trying to solve is going in and teaching some of these key principles of understanding what makes a place somewhere that we want to live. I know we've been talking with some of our advisors, Paul Moraine, who he's in London, is one of our advisors. used to run the design division of the Princess Foundation. for several years and help set up the Sustainable Cities program in Oxford University. He started asking us to really dig into the why. And when we are talking with our students this summer, this is what we're gonna be digging into is why, what is important to you when you're designing a city? And then how do we get there? Because

Austin Tunnell

That is that question as basic as it is. That's what's missing from the university discussion right now. I think we we value in education so much about this personal discovery and this personal coming up with your own philosophy on design and your own style and your own way of working. But we we miss some of the lessons from history that that we really need to pull from and if we understand what our values are then we can start looking at these places in history and learning how they were able to solve the things that we are trying to solve today. So that is where that's what we're trying to pull from for this. Do you have anything to add? Yeah. I would say, um, Austin, one of the other core wise is that there is a gap in the actual number of individuals out there who have these skills. Um, if you think about just kind of, uh, the number of architects that come out of university programs every year, it's approximately 6,000 give or take, um, only a couple of, had no idea it was that few 6,000. Yeah. Plus or minus across the U S. Yeah. mean, don't quote me on that exact number. We may need a fact check and you know, check plus or minus. the number of architects that are actually coming out that are like Will said, have more of this holistic understanding of the city and how to incorporate beauty, resiliency, not just into the individual buildings, but the whole picture is only in the hundreds. You know, if we look at certain programs and universities that are teaching that. So we have this huge gap in terms of just raw numbers of architects, and that's not even talking about planners and development professionals. I'm sure the gap's even larger for them. And so really it's trying to educate more, quote unquote, city makers so that we can really increase the bar of knowledge and skills and vision. I think what Will mentioned there around vision.

Austin Tunnell

having a bigger understanding of the why, and you talk about this so much in your podcast, is critical and it's missing. And so if we can help a young professional or student at a young age, or maybe earlier in their career, that's a huge leverage moment, you know, to now go forward. I know you talk about Austin, so much of your journey is learning. And I know for me as well, if I would have had certain insights at an earlier age. mean, the trajectory could be totally different. Yeah, I love both. I've got a couple of things to say. Both you guys said something that triggered, but I love that idea. If I had known back then what I know today, like how it could transform. Cause I think you guys are clear, like you probably had experiences too, but I know I've had experiences where it could be a conversation, a single conversation. It could be a single book. It could be a single conference. It could be a single person or. That literally changes the trajectory of your life in pretty substantial ways, especially when you start looking over a 10-year period. It's pretty wild, and I really could see something like this providing that for a lot of people. But there's a couple things I wanted to hit on. You talked about in school, one of the things that's lacking, is, I mean, you didn't say it exactly like this, but actually studying precedent and studying history and great cities and great architecture and what's worked over time. And it doesn't mean that we're also not innovative and that we don't add our own artistic expression to it. Of course we do. There needs to be that element as well. But I think about when you learn to play an instrument, when you're learning to play music, you don't start off writing your own music. They're not like, hey, here, write your own songs. They're like, OK, let me teach you the notes. And then And then when you can start to play a little bit, we're going to teach you to play cover songs of other people's music. And then, you know, when you get better, you'll start adding your own little bits of, you know, flair to it. And then before you know it, you're actually composing your own music in time. Like that's really kind of the progression that works that no one argues with really. And it's very odd.

Austin Tunnell

And then in architecture, we've kind of really removed that. And that's one of the things, and I want to get into this a little bit later, more in depth of just architecture of school and things like that. And it's just a tough, I mean, it's really hard. There's so much to learn and the world we live in is very complex, but not studying. the greatest cities in the history of the world, the greatest architecture in history. The places that people spend billions of dollars to go to just for a week to experience. The fact that people don't study that 99 % of architecture schools really is pretty wild and a disservice. And I know a lot of times it kind of falls into this. Maybe whether you could say it's like a postmodern perspective of kind of not caring about tradition or maybe even young people feel like, traditional is boring. I don't want to live in a traditional house. want a modern house. And the way I think, and I'm going to express this and feel free to disagree with me, but the way I think of tradition, it's not a style. You know, it's really a set of values that can get expressed in infinite different ways. And the other, there's a couple of things, and let's actually talk about something that affected me. I forgot about this, but this was, a line that someone told me back in 2013 at Caliola when I first left KPMG. And he said, what did he say? Tradition isn't outdated, it's proven innovation. And that idea that tradition isn't this like old thing that we shouldn't care about is boring. It's tradition is actually proven innovation. It was new at the time and it's solutions work. workable solutions to enduring problems that have persisted over time. so tradition is like our most valuable repertoire of tools to address all of this stuff. And when it comes to architecture, which really is the human habitat, it's like, man, we should be studying tradition first and then adding the art and the self-expression and then kind of the pushing the envelope of writing our own music later.

Austin Tunnell

Exactly. No, I agree with you 100 % Austin. mean, so my... Matthew does not come from an architecture background, but I do. So I can speak a little bit very specifically on architecture school. I attended Georgia Tech for undergrad and I studied abroad at the Chinese University of Hong Kong for a semester. And then I went to Tulane University for grad school. Over the course of those six years of higher education, I had one class that talked about urbanism. And it was a history class at Georgia Tech where they talked about urbanism in terms of historical movements, but not in terms of how they actually designed that or how you could take principles from that and apply it to designs today. It was It was more of a, if you find yourself in a medieval European city, you now know the kinds of things that, the patterns you will see. That's what the class was about. It wasn't about how can, what can you learn and turn into active designs today. And that's really what, that's really the missing piece in education right now for all the traditional aspects of design. So. I think, you know, we do learn architecture history in school. It's a required part of the curriculum. Almost every architecture history course I've ever been a part of, the focus is on teaching the movements in the course of history. It's more of a history course than it is something where you say, if you, you know, if you're designing or when the medieval craftsmen were designing a Gothic cathedral. These are the kinds of things they thought about. This is how they drew that, this window detail, this cornice detail. don't dig it. None of that is discussed. None of the detailing is discussed. It is broad strokes. Here are the sequence of different traditions that evolved over the centuries. And I think that we're doing a massive disservice to students doing that.

Austin Tunnell

because we don't understand why they used the details they used, which then translates to why we use the details we use today. that is, you know, think that that's tradition in architecture. We just have completely abandoned tradition in urbanism. mean, the new urbanist movement had to scrape together the resources from a hundred years ago of how we used to build cities to even begin to understand how to think about urbanism in the United States, because we scrapped it a hundred years ago to build very wide roads for cars. And then we started looking at different individual pieces of architecture as an object rather than as a part of the whole. And so that's really what we're interested in discussing with the students. providing back to anybody who comes to the summer program is we are trying to bring those resources back so that we can actually talk and have a discussion about forming community and forming cities. Yeah. And if I could add something there real quick, Austin, that idea, the way that's going to manifest in the summer studio program over those two weeks, we'll walk Charleston. We'll actually get out into the world. We won't just sit in lectures. We will of course have lectures and hear from the best of the best, but we're going to get hands-on, not only in a studio setting, but getting out to the real world to see how does this work? How do you feel? How does it resonate with you? How do you see people interacting with it? So it's not all just theory for us. It is very much a practical movement, a physical manifestation of learning in 3D. If you've been enjoying the Building Culture podcast and are listening on Apple or Spotify, could you pause for just a moment and leave a five star review? My goal is to get to a hundred reviews. And if you do take a screenshot and email it to playbook at building culture.com playbook, P L A Y B O O K at building culture.com. And when we hit a hundred, I'll randomly pick five winners and send them a building culture hat that looks just like this.

Austin Tunnell

I appreciate it. And back to the show. I love the interactive element of it too. And I'm glad you said, Will, earlier that it's like the it's actually not very hard what we're talking about. Like you can actually learn most of the basics in two weeks. Are you going to like literally know every technical detail? No, but you'll know enough to be able to pursue it on your own. I think it's maybe a good way to say it. And that's just incredibly valuable. You also said something that picked up kind of on the other piece. that I wanted to touch on while you were talking. So one was kind of that idea of tradition and looking at precedent and what's worked and persisted over thousands of years and how cool that is actually. really exciting. It's not like, I don't know, outdated. But the second thing is looking at it as part of a whole and not just architecture. All of the... really all of the professions within the built environment, whether it's engineering, and of course then you've got split that up into structural and mechanical and civil engineering and then in structural or you've got different, you know, breaks and then you've got architecture and landscape architecture and planning and all of these, and then you've got builders and you've got developers and they all are taught completely separately, really in a vacuum and they basically start off specialized. And I think that's quite literally the opposite of what we should be doing. We live in a complex world, so 100 % we have to specialize. There's no doubt in my mind that specialization is important and that it kind of naturally occurs. I mean, heck, I hope to specialize more over time. Like I already have over the past 12 years, because I've just been such a broad person doing so a million things, but it's like, What am I really good at? Also, what do I really love? And then also what's needed in the moment. And hopefully over time, I never want to retire. I just want to do more of what I really love and what I'm really good at. But starting with a broad base is so important because architecture doesn't live in isolation. These cities, I really like how Chuck Marone talks about it. They're complex organisms. They're not complicated. Complicated is a watch that you can break down and really understand all the pieces and how they fit together and put it back together. Cities are really

Austin Tunnell

organisms, living organisms. And there's so many pieces that go into it. If people care about the environment and sustainability and climate change, you guess what? Probably the number one thing you could do is start building more traditional people first walkable cities way before electric cars and lead certifications like that is way, way, way freaking down the list or, you know, carbon neutral materials, traditional urban patterns is going to address that far more than these other things. If you care about the health epidemic in the US and that 70, what is it, 74 % of Americans are overweight and a third of kids have diabetes now or more. Now, granted, there's lifestyle, I mean, there's environmental and food things along with this, but also literally our environment. That's kind of the third pillar of physical health. And then there's the mental health and... all the depression and loneliness and anxiety and these real statistics that are just skyrocketing right now. Kids don't have freedom anymore to be kids. Elderly don't have freedom anymore to live out their old age. It's like go be stuffed somewhere to die. All of these things kind of get played. And then just the sociology, psychology, beauty. We want our architects understanding sociology and psychology and like what makes actually people thrive. want our engineers understanding and thinking about beauty. We want developers thinking about these things and we want architects even thinking about what it takes to develop a project with money. You know, all these people, if they can have a foundational layer of knowledge, it doesn't mean they carry forward and become experts in those, but to understand, have an even idea and inkling of what else someone else is solving for, helps so much. talk about in building a lot, the best. rough framer, this won't make sense to everyone, but you have framers who do like rough framing the sticks, the stick frame stuff, the two by fours that go up and you've got trim carpenters and that's the fine stuff at the end where the trim and moldings and they say the best rough carpenter is a former trim carpenter because they know what the other person's going to have to deal with down the line because the rough carpenter comes first. So I really am just a huge proponent of broad base of knowledge.

Austin Tunnell

And one the other reasons I'm so excited about you guys doing this, that even in two weeks, I think you can infuse so much knowledge and people leave with so many resources to keep exploring on their own and really kind of build out that knowledge. And by the way, I would just really encourage you, if you are young, there's really nothing more important you could be doing. It feels like you're in a hurry to, you know, I don't get on the track and the profession and go do this thing and move up at this company or whatever. it will serve you far, far, far, far, far better to get some breadth of experience in your 20s and then start specializing more in your 30s. That was a bit of a. Monologue, but no, I think it's a spot on Austin. The thing that I want to highlight is that when a student is in our program, we're not going to just be. On the theory side, we're going to get into what is that human flourishing look like and really paint that vision. Because you're, you're, you're spot on when you talk about specializations kind of stay in, in isolation. And the other thing I want to really mention too is that we're going to also talk about market realities, right? We can't just stay pie in the sky all day long. We need to have these kind of Venn diagram or this intersecting of best practices of human flourishing. of market realities. And of course, after two weeks, a student's not going to be able to do that perfectly. And they're going to understand it, like you're saying, from more of a first principles standpoint and at a bigger picture standpoint. So I just want to emphasize that for free students that are interested. And if I could add, I've really connected with what you're saying, Austin. And I think something I've learned through working with Lew, through working with the Congress for the New Urbanism, is that the Charette process is really powerful because if you're unfamiliar, you're bringing together all the stakeholders, anybody involved in the project for a very intense period of time where a shared vision is created.

Austin Tunnell

It sounds wonderful and fun and just pie in the sky just to everyone to come together and what dream up what they want their community to be. But what I've seen work so many times is once that vision is there, people figure out how to get it done. If they want something to happen enough, we all figure out how to get it done. We figure out how to get it funded. We figure out how to construct it. We figure out. how to engineer it and make the land work. And that's on the professional side. I think it applies to the education side as well. If we can get everybody together and say, this is the world we want, then that's the base from which everybody can then go out and figure out what their specific role is in creating that world. But that's what we're trying to do is get back to that foundation of what is it that makes human flourish? What is it that makes a place place we want to be. then knowing that, we can then each find our own path into creating that for our community, for our own families and friends. That's what Steve Jobs always talked about with technology. said, you can't start with the technology, you can't start with the hardware, you have to start with the human experience and then back into the hardware. And people don't understand how much he quite literally revolutionized. computers and technology because before that no one, no one was thinking like that and everything today, whether it's, yeah, there's Android and there's Microsoft and all sorts of other things. It was Apple and specifically Steve Jobs and that vision of really saying, we work at the intersection of the liberal arts and technology and we start with the human person. We start with the user experience and then back into the technology and we develop that way. Things would not look the way they do now if it weren't for that. And I think very much the same way with our cities. We're so focused on, generally speaking, the hardware of the cities and the rules and the regulations and just the technical things. And don't get me wrong, those are really important. But you want to start with, to your point, Will.

Austin Tunnell

the fact that these are actually people living here and we are quite literally building the human habitat. And that's really been, that struck me as pretty profound. don't know, I think this year, I say this year, 2024, over 2024, I don't think I was using that language before, really we're building the human habitat because that word habitat has a lot of connotations for people because we inherently understand, intuitively understand a habitat of a living creature is really, really, really, really important. If it's a fish, we're gonna, put it in water, we're not gonna leave it outside water, guess what? It will die. If it's a polar bear, even if it's in a zoo, we're like, let's kinda try to bring the environment to the animal because we know that the habitat, they can thrive in a habitat or they can get sick and die if it's the wrong habitat. And humans have this just unbelievable, profound potential to shape our own habitats. And people have, there's this kind of narrative today with the... that humans are destructive. And humans 100 % can be destructive, they have been destructive, they are destructive in so many ways. At the same time, some of the most beautiful things on earth have been built and cultivated by humans. we have this, yes, we have a great capacity for destruction, but to just write humanity off as a destructive force is so profoundly wrong. I feel like I just think it's like wrong, flat on its face, a lie because there is so much richness and good and beauty that humans can create. But it takes that like actual intention. so like cities are architecture is truly this incredible canvas. And, you know, we talked just a little bit about, Hey, you know, I want to come up with my own style and do this and really figure out who I am. I think there's also this

Austin Tunnell

great responsibility when it comes to working in the built environment, because 6,000 people or whatever graduate from architecture school annually, and I don't know what the entire profession is, you know, alive today. But a tiny, tiny, tiny subset of people are building what the rest of everyone else, the other 320 million people live in. And with profound effects on their lives. I don't mean just a little bit like, I kind of like, no, I mean profound effects on how we live, work, Play, connect, all of that, that it really should be treated and taught as this great responsibility. It's also really like cool and fun because it's also important. There's so much meaning in it too, but it also, and in fact, I guess if there wasn't responsibility, it really wouldn't be that meaningful. Cause I think meaning really comes from, know, finding things that are hard, but also that taking on more responsibility, I guess what I'm saying.

Austin Tunnell

The thing that Austin comes up when I think about great responsibility is in our program, we're bringing multiple disciplines like Will mentioned earlier, but we're bringing people who have seen all of the pitfalls. They've seen how they've messed up in the past and sharing that and bringing that to the students at a younger age or earlier in their career so they can learn from them. So we think it's a great opportunity for students to build their network of professionals and leaders that they can look up to. how can we carry the torch forward if we're not learning from that generation above us and the generation above them and making sure that we don't repeat the same mistakes? I remember, I think, Andres Diwani saying that our profession is like a perpetual experiment. Like everyone who puts out something, it's a hypothesis. It's an experiment. And so if we're not reflecting on that and learning from it, we're bound to make a similar mistake in the future. Just that came to mind as you were talking about responsibility. Yeah. And we really have an incredible wealth of knowledge that we're working with. We have a partnership with Intval USA, which is the international network of traditional Buildings, Architecture, and Urbanism. Christine Frank, who's the president of that group, is on our advisory board. And they're really helping us to craft a curriculum that is based in tradition, but is not stifled by tradition. So we're really, if we don't learn from the past, then we're bound to make the same mistakes. Absolutely. Yeah, there's real pioneers and real pioneering to be done within that traditional movement, which I find very exciting. It's not like the world is known and we just need to repeat what's been done before. It's like learn from that. But also we live in today. It's twenty twenty five and we do have cars and vehicles and technology and air conditioning and all sorts of other amazing things. So it's like, how do you marry these things? It's not how do you leave behind the past.

Austin Tunnell

and only go with the future or get stuck in the past. You know, I was recently not too long ago in Segovia in Spain, you this old medieval town and it's an amazing town. But at the same time, I was like, wow, I wouldn't want to live here. Like, you know, it's amazing to visit. I wouldn't want to live here. Like there is there's so much pioneering left to be done to figure out what is what is 21st century cities look like a blending the best of old and new. Exactly. And it's about what can we learn from the past and take forward. I mean, think, that's really just, that's as simple as it is. We just aren't taking those lessons from the past anymore, at least in the way that we're teaching the next generation of architects right now. And the students will actually have an opportunity in a design studio. We were talking earlier about our studio leader there, but they'll actually have an opportunity to take these learnings and and actually put their mind to pencil and to paper, so to speak, and have that be a real world example of what they learn and ensure that in a portfolio or publicly after the program is over. And we're going to use a real case study from Charleston. So it's not going to be some kind of remote made up thing. It's going to be very much a, hey, You know, here's what was done in the past. Here's what people are thinking about going forward. What do you think? How do we combine those both and produce something tangibly and talk about it and critique it and learn from each other? just, think the program, it's hard to maybe. Inconsolate everything in this podcast for what we're going to be doing, but there's so much hands-on learning that I think is really important for students to. to know. At this point, you all know that Sierra Pacific Windows and OneSource Windows and Doors sponsors the podcast, but I want to take a moment to tell you about why we use them at Building Culture and why I personally love their product. Take their H3 casement series, which is probably the line we use the most. It's their entry level aluminum clad window. And what's so cool about it is it has a ton of options. It has something like 27 different colors you can get. Maybe it's more at this point.

Austin Tunnell

And also you got all sorts of different Muntin profiles that in a lot of other entry level series, you're only gonna get five or six colors and you're gonna only have like maybe one profile that you can get, say an OG profile. And sometimes we use OG profile, but what I really love, our favorite, my personal favorite window that we use absolutely the most is with a 5-8 putty profile. And this all of is very nerdy, but if you're an architect, you're a builder, you're redoing your home, this is really important stuff. And I love the five eights putty because it's narrow, but it's got these clean lines compared to a, an OG profile. So it feels, it feels both historic because it is a historic profile, but it also feels kind of modern. So it can hit that really nice transitional style and vibe also as a really like thin frame. And so it's just a really nice window that I feel it feels sleek. feels a little bit modern, but it also feels historic and classic. And so. That's why we use them. if you, the Sierra Pacific distributes all over the country. And then if you are in the state of Oklahoma, one source windows and doors is who we source our Sierra Pacific through. So check them out. Got the links and the show notes back to the show. Something else that strikes me that's going to be incredibly valuable about the program is the network. You know, when you of people, not only the other students you interact with and you guys, but all the people coming in to teach it for people that don't run in this world at all yet. It could be extra. It could open up entire new worlds for you for people that do already run the world. It's still like you're you know, learning from actual practitioners out there, even if you already know who that person was. And I think like I've experienced in my life, like relationships are so They're so important for opening doors and opportunities and you never know when that comes back to help. I really see that as another really valuable aspect of this two-week program. Yeah, we actually wanted to mention something. We are opening up a fellowship program that's really exciting. we'll course have students. We have about 24 students or so. But we're going to have four or so fellows.

Austin Tunnell

And those individuals are actually going to be helping with the program, but doing independent guided research along a side will can probably speak into a little bit more. But we believe the fellowship program could be great for maybe someone who's a little bit more advanced in their career or a little bit further along in their career, but still wants to be side by side and learning from great lecturers and having space. And margin to actually do some independent research, use Charleston as a backdrop for learning. I think you. anything you want to add there? Yeah, I think really it's a great way. If you already are in this world a little bit and you, already, you know, you, you've been to Notre Dame, you, have a little bit of tradition or you've been working in the field for a few years and you want to be able to get involved and find that space to do some. to both give back and to produce some of your own research. Exactly what Matthew said. I think it's a really great opportunity for people just a little bit further along. still in the beginning side of their career, but they have some, some have beneath them. And I think for us, it's exciting because we're also able to, in addition to you know, creating this program that we are able to teach students. We're also creating an opportunity for a few of these fellows to do their own research and to contribute back to all the work that all of us are doing. So we're really excited about that as well. That's awesome. One other thing to bring up, I know, is that another way to be involved, if anyone listening, this sounds really interesting, but maybe you're not interested in going, another way to support it could be through a donation. know you guys are raising money. Your target is what? 20,000 or so. Is that right? Okay. so for people that were,

Austin Tunnell

interested in doing either of those things is to go to the website? Yeah. Yeah. You can apply on our website, citymakerscollective.org. And we are looking for patrons and donors. That could be someone who wants to sponsor students and scholarships. That could be someone who wants to sponsor a lecture or a lecture series. And it could also look like supporting a fellow or the fellowship. The majority of our budget is going to come from student tuition, but we do have a small fundraising goal, like you mentioned, around 20K. We're trying to keep that to a smaller number of patrons and donors. And if there's someone out there that wants to support, you can email myself or Will, which we'll put our maybe emails in the show notes. But that'll be super, super important. for us at this stage. And I kind of wanted to mention to Austin that this is not just a one-off summer program. Citymakers Collective is the organization and the summer program is two weeks, but we're also dreaming and planning for multiple programs in the future, right? We have planners, developers, architects. We know that there is general education that all of them can learn, but then there is again specialized education that we can bring in the future. So, you know, just for anyone, maybe this program's not specifically for you, would love you to just kind of follow along because over time we will be producing more educational programs. And on that note, we've been talking a lot about the summer program, but actually the first program that we'll be putting on is on March 29th in Boston. We'll be hosting a one-day workshop. in partnership with the HAPI, which is the Human Architecture and Planning Institute, where we'll be really diving deep into brain science and architecture and urbanism and the crossover between them and how what our brains are doing when we're walking through an environment and how we react to things. And then also trying to distill that into some design principles and what we can take away from the latest tech and science that's out there right now. I mean, we're cutting that. That's like

Austin Tunnell

cutting edge science that's happening right now. So we're really excited to be a part of that with the happy. And this is the kind of programming we want to continue to put on in the future and grow this summer school, also grow this education and really just start changing the profession and start changing the conversation about the way that we're building everything. I find that a super exciting. area of growing research, what you're talking about. I know Anne Sussman, who's part of this is, mean, what is her book called? Cognitive Architecture. Cognitive Architecture. So I actually have not read that yet, but she kind of runs in those realms too. So I think people are going to get exposure to that, which is great. But I do remember I read Embodied Cognition, something about Embodied Cognition, which is a study of... I don't know all the right words for it, but it was talking, you know, basically the idea of us being physical creatures, like actual physical bodies, and not just that we're physical, but just that we have two hands and two legs, how integrated that is to our minds and our spirit. It's not like two separate things that there really is this integration. And, and it kind of blew my mind. And that was a while ago that I read it, because I'm having a hard time remembering actual details. But I'd read one after that about like, Cognition within architecture wasn't in Sussman's and it really was just exceptionally exciting and really kind of validating in a lot of ways once again that idea that the habitat that we inhabit has profound influences on our lives how we feel how we go about things so that that's really cool that y'all are on the cutting edge of You know old tech The thing that's really cool, Austin, is that folks like Anne, yourself, Michael Mahaffney, all these people, they are doing so much good work. And sometimes they write a book that sometimes all of their knowledge is more in their head. Maybe they'll speak at a conference, which is great. But usually those conferences are a little more advanced. And so we feel like we have a unique opportunity to bring those people to students, to folks in the early...

Austin Tunnell

stages of their career that, you know, kind of frankly doesn't exist right now for them to speak. Cause these are people who are active professionals, you know, they're not doing, you know, active a four year program or something like that as a professor. You know, they're out there learning and being on that cutting edge. And so really a cool opportunity for us to like take them, take their brain and all of their learnings and kind of put it on display for these students to learn. So a lot of great content over those two weeks. I wish I was going in person this year, but hopefully future years. Matthew, know Will, you were able to say just a little bit about what you do. You're an architect and when working with Lou for 10 plus years. Matthew, could you kind of just tell a little bit about your background and the new, I forget the new found vision, is that right? New story. Why do I news story and and then all thoughts so if you can tell a little bit about that and then I would also love to hear What was the very first conversation that you guys had about the city makers collective? Like why did it happen? How did you guys get connected? And what was that first conversation that seed? For sure So my background is is not in architecture. I actually studied Information systems and user experience. So we were talking a little bit about Steve Jobs on the technology side My heart when I was first in my career was building better technology by thinking about the human experience, that interaction that you have with technology. So I've just shifted from the digital world to the built world and I've loved it. So over the past 10 years, a couple of friends and I have started an organization called New Story and we're focused on affordable housing, mainly in Mexico, El Salvador, and other parts of Latin America. And we do that by financing land acquisition and horizontal development, but we also partner with local governments to help them push forward affordable housing strategies. And so while my head is a lot in Latin America, we see similar issues and similar gaps and problems. So I'm excited for us to obviously push this program together in the U S but there's a lot of opportunity to learn internationally and

Austin Tunnell

maybe a partner with other international organizations. So yeah, that's a little bit of my background. And then Will and I know each other through the Congress for New Urbanism. We were both on the board here in Atlanta. And I think our first conversation was at the CNU conference two years ago, is that right? And Will had just come back from a international program in Utrecht. in the Netherlands and was just telling me how like, kind of just like his inspiration and his vision was completely changed for what's possible. So that was the first conversation two years ago. And we've since then formed a nonprofit for City Makers Collective, recruited the group of advisors that we were mentioning earlier, recruited a executive board of about seven individuals. So we've been busy over here getting started. And this is all just volunteer, none of us get paid. So it's very much kind of a passion of ours and something that we really want to see out in the world. That's two years ago, that's actually really quick turnaround to be launching a pretty sophisticated workshop. I really admire and respect that because ideas are easy. Execution is where all the work is. And so well done for kind of getting this going. I know it hasn't actually, you know, happened yet, but the group you've put together is really, really impressive. Anything else y'all would like to add? Any other information you want people to know before we wrap up? Yeah. So applications are live on the website. We've already got applications rolling in, which is really exciting. Applications close March 15th. So make sure if you're interested to start looking at the application You can submit there's there's a couple things in there that you want to be just mindful of as you as you look And then again if anyone's interested in being a patron or a donor we would love to have that conversation And so you can just reach out to us Individually on our email, which we can put in the show notes. Oh Anything else? I think that's it we

Austin Tunnell

Yeah, applications are live. We'd love for you to apply if you're interested. And even if you're not from a design background, apply anyways, because this is really for everybody. And we're trying to just build a solid foundation of the places that we want to live in. So if you're interested in any of that conversation, send in an application. Yeah, makes sense. would say even, yeah, someone, even a builder or someone who wants to be a developer or something, you know. And then how much is it? Can you walk through that really quickly? The tuition will be $17.50. And we're currently finalizing some affordable housing options for those two weeks for students through the College of Charleston. And I don't want to give those details till we have it from them. But it'll be a reasonable rate for that. I think planning on the total being around $3,000 out of pocket for students. And in addition, we will have, as long as we can, funderys. We will have a few scholarships available for students as well, which when they apply, we'll reach out to see who might be of financial assistance. We're trying to make this accessible as possible. Awesome. Well, I will put all of these things in the show notes. So be sure to go check out the website if you're interested in participating or in donating. And guys, really good to have you on. I'm excited about just the first year of this and to see what it turns into. So thanks for all your work and pushing this forward. Yeah, thank you, Austin. And you've been invaluable as one of our advisors. we're so excited to... to do this first year and then we're excited for this to build into something much bigger because we have a big vision for this and we think we can do some good with this organization really just connecting all the different pieces of urbanism and all the different people that are doing great work with the next generation. Awesome. Well, thanks guys. Talk to you again soon. It's awesome. Thanks, also.

Austin Tunnell

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